School groups, what is appropriate?

[ollster]

Yup. Between random poo and 176 school kids camped at Pelion..... people wonder why I have no interest in doing the OT

Az and I have been talking about doing an OT theme walk. Safari suits, clown suits, I dunno, maybe Village People theme?

PS: I heart off-topic.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Yeh we had this conversation months ago, we couldnt decide if the super hero costumes, or g-strings would be more appropriate.

[Azza]

Olle maybe you can be the dress as a headmaster and give the cane to all the naughty school children?

[ILUVSWTAS]

Hahahaha oh Azz, the possabilities are endless.......

[Nuts]

Yes, er... well...

'Appropriate' would have to be similar numbers as with tours and parks recommendations but really should be made clear.
I think they (and I) would suggest 10 plus leaders.... (?)
The idea really needs to get across that this is appropriate for a remote (overnight) walk and separate from a traditional school 'camping' experience.
To me the concept needs to be better applied by those organising these walks. Large groups and remote walking just dont fit within the same thinking.
For bigger groups perhaps an overnighter on an easy route (and easily navigated, no matter the experience of the group (And the leaders)), informing as many people as possible, offered on a Voluntary basis and with careful planning would cause the least impact and provide something similar to a 'wilderness experience'...

[Ent]

Hi All

Splendid silence appears to be the situation with the school. Not even an email acknowledging the one I sent. Sounds like a letter to Melbourne Newspaper might be required to get some common decency from the school or maybe Victorian Education Department. The claim of providing the leaders for the future is rather hollow given the lack of leadership shown by the school. In all a very disappointing which re-enforces the indifference shown by the school.

Cheers Brett

[ILUVSWTAS]

It's just Tasmania, no-one will notice let alone care...

[Lizzy]

It's just Tasmania, no-one will notice let alone care...

Oh come now- we all love our southern state and are very interested in its preservation!
The size groups you are talking about are not all that uncommon- I used to take groups of highschool kids (about 30) with a teacher (which was sometimes more of a problem than the kids) on wilderness courses of about 8-10 days. While we were not always too far away from some sort of backup at times we definitely would be and only had radios (no phones) which may or may not work. When we were on the river we got an extra instructor- but i thought this was totally inadequate, especially for whitewater. Other companies I worked for had better ratios and better access to emergency help- something like 1 instructor : 20 kids + teacher. Its so much better with 2 instructors- especially if soemthing happens to you
Lizzy

[murrayap]

Having taken a group of 10 cadets through the Overland Track, I'd have to say that having a group of 47 is just way too many in that area. Not only would the experience they themselves get out of it be much diminished, as well as the experience for everyone else on the track, but also I do wonder whether they'd really assessed the risks. To get our walk approved by Defence Department we had a risk assessment pushing 15-20 pages long, covering everything we could possibly think of that could go wrong and an action plan to deal with them, together with a requirement for a 1:6 instructor ratio for an activity of this type and a minimum of 3 instructors (so that there was still two left with the group if 1 had to fetch help). I remember visiting Scott-Kilvert Hut for the first time and reading about the school group tragedy for which it's named...I wonder if those lessons have really been learnt? I'm sure we all know how quickly Tassie weather can turn on you, but would the leaders of this school group have realised this? Should PWS have a more active role in ensuring that groups operating within national parks are safe - perhaps having to approve overnight trips by groups larger than 15 etc?

[ILUVSWTAS]

The size groups you are talking about are not all that uncommon

Most bushwalking books even say anymore than 8 is kind of unacceptable. ESPECIALLY in a WHA

[MJD]

Brett:

Splendid silence appears to be the situation with the school.

Apparently not on the walk though! 47 on a wilderness experience - who's kidding who.

[corvus]

Parks did send a message I believe did they get an answer ?
corvus

[whynotwalk]

A partial update ... I've been sent a copy of a letter written to the school by a Canadian couple who encountered the school group at Pelion Hut. PWS now has that letter as well. The Canadians don't pull any punches in a long letter, using words like "shock" "dismay" and "disappointment". I'm not aware of any response from the school as yet, but I hear that PWS is looking into the whole situation. I am told the school was given clear guidelines on group sizes, and use of facilities. It seems this may not be a first "offence" from this school.

The general line from PWS is to encourage responsible visits by small, well-supervised groups. And they tell me that most of the time this approach works. But in this case ... Anyway, I'll let you know if I hear any more.

And by the way, other than that experience, the Canadians say

we thoroughly enjoyed our time on the Overland Track and in Tasmania

cheers

Peter

[Ent]

Hi Peter

Thanks for the update. It appears that this school is happy to be irresponsible and non-communicative which suggests a poor education environment for their charges. It sounds like there is a reason to pursue this matter in a more public forum to highlight the poor decision making approach by the school and its responsible (irresponsible) adults that run it. One thing is certain, if something goes wrong with future excursions the organisers will have not much wriggle room on defending against failure in his/her duty of care based on what I saw.

Cheers Brett